Thursday, March 21, 2013

Ask IAC - How objective is the OBE? - London, UK

These questions came from Caz Coronel (London, UK).
This time we have two sets of answers.


Our current paradigm dictates that we are living in the physical world and that we have a physical body. We appear to have a consciousness that mostly resides inside our body. The OBE gives us the experience where we are leaving the body. The IAC teach us how to "leave our bodies" amongst other wonderful skills. I am presuming, but I maybe incorrect, that IAC believes that it is this consciousness that controls the movements of the body. There are some issues with this model of reality.

1. how does a non-physical energy have any impact on something physical?

2. Why is that we can OBE without having any experience of 'leaving the body?

3. Why can we OBE without any vibrations?

Could it be that we just believe in this current paradigm so strongly that it is useful to think in its terms. This belief would dictate the nature of our experience in the 'OBE". However with different beliefs we can have a different experience all together. If we think of the physical as a dream then we don't really have a body at all. "Energy" is not made from anything different to "physical" its all dream stuff!


All evidence does point to the fact that it is "this consciousness" that controls the physical body.

In response to the specific questions:
1. Through the chaining together of the different bodies through various energetic connections and a gradual "densifying" of the energies that occurs in this process. So to cut a long (but fast) story short, what starts out as an extremely subtle thought can be transformed into a semi-physical energetic interaction (in the energosoma) and then a physical interaction due to the energosoma being deeply embedded and interwoven in the physical body.
2. The point here to remember is that we can leave the body and be lucid throughout the process. The fact that sometimes (more commonly than we may like) we are not lucid - only indicates our incompetence in mastering the projective process.
3. The vibrations vary for a number of reasons - the condition of our energosoma, our level of attention, the extraphysical environment we are in.  Again being more experienced in managing energies and ourselves while out of the body is the solution to this situation.

Different beliefs will certain change our experience - but as you may be aware the ideal is not to believe anything. Think for yourself, have your own experiences, see if the thing is logical for you, replace beliefs with direct personal experience. Of course the challenge is in having those experiences and interpreting them in the healthiest way possible - easier said than done, but not impossible.

You could look at the physical like a dream, indeed when you have more lucidity than you are accustomed to you see physical life in that way. The challenge (yes another one) is to integrate the extraphysical realities and exeperiences into our physical lives in a mature and balanced way, without alienating ourselves in any way.

Jeff Lloyd was born in New Zeland. He is currently an IAC instructor in Iguassu Falls, Brazil.


Hello, Caz. I think the essence of your inquiry is whether there is a difference between subjective and objective reality; you may also be wondering about the relationship of consciousness and its perceived reality (whether physical or beyond).

The way we establish reality is through means such as reason, consensus and consistency of observation.  Take Trafalgar Square, for instance. If you get 100 visitors to describe this location, there will be some variation in the accounts due to different "scales of observation" and individual "filters," but there will be a fair amount of consensus, whether they visit individually or as a group.  The same could happen if we had projections of the consciousness (OBE's) to this location.  Now, if I have never been to or learned about Trafalgar Square and I merely dreamt about a place of my mental creation, it would probably not match this consensus because it is an oneiric creation of my inner reality alone. 

If I burn a piece of paper, i cannot reserve this chemical reaction in the physical reality. In a dream, anything goes. There is a sound basis for distinguishing reality from fantasy and this is the basis for all knowledge, for science and, indeed, for ethics. In a dream, one cannot effect harm on anyone, as all characters are imaginary. In the real world, whether physical or extraphysical, we could pollute an environment with our negative influence or, in the case of the physical world, even inflict physical harm.  The very cycle of birth, intraphysical life with a body, death of the body, the intermissive period between lives, followed by another birth and so on is a reflection of this reality.

It is important to emphasize that the consciential paradigm is the result of experience, of observation and not the other way around.  We discuss multiple realities, multiple vehicles of consciousness ("bodies") including subtle energy and the astral body as models for our experience. Do these structures, does the whole of reality exist independently of consciousness, though? This is not a question that can be scientifically answered since it is outside observation and hence cannot be verified or, rather, refuted.  However, it seems reasonable to me and many others that since all we know about is what we can observe and these observations take place "within" us, the "external" world appears to be our collective creation.  This appears to be the case of extraphysical communities of thought-forms and may well be the case for physical reality.  However, we must still distinguish dream or fantasy from this consensus, multidimensional reality where there are real consequences, this framework or scaffold for our evolution.

Yes, the consciousness itself may be cosmic, practically unlimited, beyond the confines space and time as we sense them, but in our state of limited awareness the physical body is very real (ever hit your finger with a hammer or try to stay awake when your body insists on sleeping?) and the astral body and energies, then, are just as real since we can verify their existence and their properties through individual and consensus experience.  They may not obey some of our linear or preconceived expectations, but they appear to be real or objective, beyond useful didactic constructs.

Regarding your very interesting questions:

1. how does a non-physical energy have any impact on something physical?

First, consciousness is not energy, in a similar way that a DJ is not sound.  Without an intelligent principle (e.g. DJ Caz Coronel), there would be no music. There might be random noise, like dialing between two radio station frequencies. Energy can be transformed into other kinds of energy and does not have attributes like will, memory, attention, intention, and so on. Consciousness, that which we are, is beyond energy. But energy is a useful concept to describe changes in the universe we perceive, which we use to manifest, to communicate. 

That said, this question is arguably one of the most pressing ones in projectiology. We can sense that there is a substance we call "bioenergy" (the biofield, etheric body, energosoma, chi, prana) that acts as a two-way information and vitality link between the "astral body" and the physical body. We can observe this through clairvoyance and OBE's, for instance. What exactly is it or rather what is the "physics" of this process? We are actively researching this through a combination of experiential and laboratorial techniques. Wagner Alegretti published a pilot of one such study in issue 42 of the Journal of Conscientiology and is currently writing about a breakthrough in this area.

To give this some context, though, imagine what a 11th century human would think of our technology: how does voice, video, and more come out of a tiny box without wires? We have also used fire and observed gravity and electricity long before we had a minimal understanding of these phenomena. So, just because there is not yet a comprehensive model to describe how, it does not negate the consensus observation. In my course Consciousness and Physical Reality and in the book Filters and Reflections, I discuss how insights from OBE's and bioenergy experiences relate to the experiential, experimental, and theoretical evidence that consciousness can affect physical devices and events, even across vast distances and, in some cases, apparently retrocausally.

It is not like conventional science has a better explanation. The search for the seat or source of the self and its thoughts continues unanswered, because most are looking in the wrong place. If you open a computer up and study its parts and systems looking for the source of Gangnam Style, you will never find the entertainer PSY in South Korea. And let's not forget that, even in physics, energy is still elusive and quite mysterious. It is a principle, a calculated theoretical quantity, rather than something can be directly observed and measured. It's relationship with consciousness can be approached through the study of entropy and its lesser-known complement: negentropy or syntropy, which I discuss in my courses on consciousness and biological life and the physical reality.

 2. Why is that we can OBE without having any experience of 'leaving the body?Indeed, we are not really in or out of the body. As such the OBE is a misnomer, except that this is typically how we perceive it. We perceive ourselves as being behind our eyes because our of physical senses. Often, we can perceive a gradually separation of the astral body, as if it evaporates from the body or separates like velcro. However, as you point out, this transition does not have to be gradual every time. It can be practically instantaneous, as can the return. Other times, we simply blackout or lose conscious awareness of this process. Here, I have to remind you that there is no reason why a process should happen the same way every time. So, why not? However, if we study factors, one of the most prominent ones would be the condition of our energy (how loose, fluid it may be); our mental state (motivated, focused with a specific target in mind or not; lucid or semi-aware); whether it is a spontaneous, intentional, or assisted projection (facilitated by another consciousness, such as an extraphysical helper)
3. Why can we OBE without any vibrations?
As you can see, the vibrational state is not a requisite for projections (the one and only causal factor), but it can facilitate it.  At times it is merely a concomittent state, occurring spontaneously.  It can be triggered by will or through other means and techniques. You might yawn when you are sleepy, but not always, and the yawn does not cause sleep. The projection is ultimately a matter of will. Other factors such as physical relaxation, psychological and emotional harmony, energetic optimization, application of techniques act as facilitators at our reduced level of evolution. No human experience is alike: from physical experiences of pain or pleasure or happiness to psychical or projective experiences -
each is unique.

Thanks for your thoughtful questions and I hope this feedback is helpful.

Nelson Abreu was born in Portugal. He is currently an instructor at IAC California in Los Angeles, USA.

No comments:

Post a Comment